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Post by mghs on Nov 17, 2022 1:43:02 GMT -6
Where did he go? I guess that could of worked almost all away games would be near 2hrs away so other sports that play mid-week would suffer as well as football. I think everyone in the SCA is losing Population. No jobs and Farming is shrinking. Not sure anything can be done really outside of finding Jobs for Families.
Interesting that Dr.H was pushing this? Not sure what benefit he see's in abandoning local Rivals and deciding to play teams on the West Side of Springfield?
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Post by jordanearl on Nov 17, 2022 10:17:57 GMT -6
Jobs in SEC Country are plentiful. almost every town has manufacturing positions open. The starting pay has doubled in last decade.
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luko
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Post by luko on Nov 17, 2022 16:14:03 GMT -6
Where did he go? I guess that could of worked almost all away games would be near 2hrs away so other sports that play mid-week would suffer as well as football. I think everyone in the SCA is losing Population. No jobs and Farming is shrinking. Not sure anything can be done really outside of finding Jobs for Families. Interesting that Dr.H was pushing this? Not sure what benefit he see's in abandoning local Rivals and deciding to play teams on the West Side of Springfield? The kid went to Nixa. There would be very little that would change as far as the schedule, all SCA teams would still play Cabool. Why would you take a win off your schedule that close to home? I think Docs point of view with football is there's no reason to stay in the SCA when you have 154 kids and your playing several quality schools with over 250 kids. What's the benefit? Points? wins are worth more; travel? the only scheduling differences would be to take the biggest 3 or 4 schools off their schedule, so at most 2 more road trips. Why would they want to play Salem, Grove and Ava year in and year out? Its a lot easier to get kids interested when your winning games, it's hard to sell kids on playing when they might win 1 0r 2 conference games a year. So you'd basically be changing 3 or 4 games every cycle, that seems pretty reasonable. There wouldn't be a point in joining another conference, why would they? The SW does currently have room though, they only have 6 teams in football with Sarcoxie, AG, Marionville, PC, Miller and Diamond. Pleasant Hope and Lockwood are gone now in football. Here's just an estimate of school sizes, why play 4 schools at least twice your size? To me that just doesn't make sense, Id like to see the last decades records for Cabool in all sports against other SCA teams. Rough numbers Salem 407 Grove 359 Ava 322 Willow 311 Liberty 253 Houston 252 Thayer 151 Cabool 146 |
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Post by bonehead on Nov 17, 2022 21:22:43 GMT -6
There most definitely would be change to their football schedule. Some of the other sports maybe not so much. But there would be to the football schedule. First of all, there is going to be the immediate irritation of coaches/schools for leaving the conference. So the attitude would be fine you take your ball and go home, but don't expect us to play you. But then also in just practical terms there would be no reason for schools like Liberty, Willow, Houston, Grove to play Cabool any longer with the way they determine district standings. They do not gain very much from beating Cabool since they are a smaller class team, but on the occasion that Cabool beats them then they have a loss to a smaller class school factored in their points. Thayer learned this lesson a few years back when they were forced to come back into the SCA in football. Remember at one time they were not members of the SCA in football. But the other SCA schools told them if you don't come into the SCA for football then we are not keeping you on our schedule. They quickly realized how hard it would be to be able to put together a full schedule.
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Post by mghs on Nov 17, 2022 23:23:58 GMT -6
Bonehead is correct.... Don't expect the Spurned SCA schools to do Cabool any favors in scheduling, junior high would of been ago and some of the Boys & Girls/Winter/Spring sports but Football not so much as it would benefit schools to play up the class and get the bonus district points if at all possible. As BH said Thayer was in the conference in football and all other sports, then got out in football only and then was forced back in by the rest of the members, think about that. Plus the scuttlebutt was that the SCA was going to go after a couple of other Schools to fill that void and possibly increase the size by one to make scheduling even easier for the AD's that would of really only given Cabool the chance to play one SCA school a season in football.
I really Don't think the Doctor and others really thought this through or factored in the response of the rest of the SCA members. I guess he/they assumed that the rest of the conference would just pat them on the back and bend over backwards to accommodate them fracturing the conference. I'd say that there might well have been some solidarity of scheduling among the remaining members.
And with Cabool being 20 min from Houston, 15 min. from WS and 9 min from Grove in the long term wouldn't those options become very attractive to all athletes when the Closest game on the schedule in all sports in the Southwest conference would be one hour and a half away. Over the course of a several seasons all that travel back and forth could well take it's toll on Players, Parents and Fans.
I do get that the uphill battle for Cabool do to school size is daunting but with that said Cabool always seems to have good numbers on their roster and they seem to compete most years pretty dang well.
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Post by dew on Nov 18, 2022 7:37:00 GMT -6
Another thing to factor though I have no proof of this but - What if the SWConference all of a sudden produced powerhouses? Used to in that area it was Webb City and that was it. Now it's several schools over there are the cream of the football crop. And that's not just the big schools take a look at Lamar. If that was to spread over to the Lockwoods, Sarcoxies, etc etc and very possibly could in due time, it's something that could backfire for the Bulldogs.
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Post by jordanearl on Nov 18, 2022 9:04:46 GMT -6
Where did he go? I guess that could of worked almost all away games would be near 2hrs away so other sports that play mid-week would suffer as well as football. I think everyone in the SCA is losing Population. No jobs and Farming is shrinking. Not sure anything can be done really outside of finding Jobs for Families. Interesting that Dr.H was pushing this? Not sure what benefit he see's in abandoning local Rivals and deciding to play teams on the West Side of Springfield? The kid went to Nixa. There would be very little that would change as far as the schedule, all SCA teams would still play Cabool. Why would you take a win off your schedule that close to home? I think Docs point of view with football is there's no reason to stay in the SCA when you have 154 kids and your playing several quality schools with over 250 kids. What's the benefit? Points? wins are worth more; travel? the only scheduling differences would be to take the biggest 3 or 4 schools off their schedule, so at most 2 more road trips. Why would they want to play Salem, Grove and Ava year in and year out? Its a lot easier to get kids interested when your winning games, it's hard to sell kids on playing when they might win 1 0r 2 conference games a year. So you'd basically be changing 3 or 4 games every cycle, that seems pretty reasonable. There wouldn't be a point in joining another conference, why would they? The SW does currently have room though, they only have 6 teams in football with Sarcoxie, AG, Marionville, PC, Miller and Diamond. Pleasant Hope and Lockwood are gone now in football. Here's just an estimate of school sizes, why play 4 schools at least twice your size? To me that just doesn't make sense, Id like to see the last decades records for Cabool in all sports against other SCA teams. Rough numbers Salem 407 Grove 359 Ava 322 Willow 311 Liberty 253 Houston 252 Thayer 151 Cabool 146 but without competing against some really good teams would your team have been as prepared for a district title game? Thayer has thrived with the increased competition. lets face it. and as others have said, leave and see if anyone wants to help you. My advise is get better, outwork the bigger teams. numbers are good, but it sure isn't helping Salem. Ava had a couple injuries and was not very good in those games. look at Liberty last year, couple injuries and they weren't very good. i or 2 injuries in Grove would have made our season take a big swing. |
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Post by mofootballfan23 on Nov 19, 2022 7:58:28 GMT -6
Another thing to factor though I have no proof of this but - What if the SWConference all of a sudden produced powerhouses? Used to in that area it was Webb City and that was it. Now it's several schools over there are the cream of the football crop. And that's not just the big schools take a look at Lamar. If that was to spread over to the Lockwoods, Sarcoxies, etc etc and very possibly could in due time, it's something that could backfire for the Bulldogs. Although some of the points being made here are obviously true, regardless of bias and conference loss. Some of these points I’m reading are though very bias though. I don’t feel a lot of these points are very caring of Cabool, but actually frustration towards having a conference issue. Maybe it isn’t in the best interest at all? Who really knows. But if Cabool wants to leave and it backfires? It backfires. Personally I think it hurts. But that’s only because even if they go 8 man it will be tough for them (because that’s what I’m concerned with mainly) to schedule games. And the travel. The other sports I feel they can schedule games. If a town is headed towards that kind of population and number issues? (I’m assuming that’s the main thing here) then they can’t compete. Now with the SWMO comments and Webb and Lamar. Cabool (not speaking about LMV and Ava) can’t build that culture without athleticism and the culture + numbers in years of classes. Webb City and Lamar both start aspects of the playbook at flag football level. There’s middle schoolers who could get the jist of a section of Lamar’s plays at 6th-7th grade. It’s not something that’s easy though. The town has to buy in, other teams in the big 8 have had issues getting parents to buy in. Parents get mad because the coach “is mean” or “yells at my boy” or whatever. Personally if I were them, I would hold out until I could go class 1. And start building a culture. Unless if the number issues are going to at some point land them in 8 man no matter what. Although Archie has like 60+ on roster and are 8 man. Seems kinda fishy to me. |
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Post by mghs on Nov 19, 2022 11:52:43 GMT -6
I don’t think Cabool’s numbers are that bad roster wise. And what did you expect, the rest of the SCA has to do what is best for the conference members left if Cabool bolted. The audacity of it appears some not all in Cabool is “Hey we are leaving”,which is understandable to a degree, “and also we want to Cherry pick some SCA schools we are comfortable playing that is convenient and competitive for us to schedule.Irregardless of how that effects 3-4 of the SCA schools Cabool doesn’t want to schedule.
At the end of the day Cabool has to do what is best for them but on the flip side to expect the other SCA schools to accommodate and help Cabool at a detriment to themselves is sort of laughable.
The remaining SCA schools would need to do all they could to strengthen and enhance the conference and each individual school. Even if this put undo hardship on Cabool.
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Post by oldhead on Nov 19, 2022 12:25:37 GMT -6
[quote author=" jordanearl" but without competing against some really good teams would your team have been as prepared for a district title game? Thayer has thrived with the increased competition. lets face it. and as others have said, leave and see if anyone wants to help you. My advise is get better, outwork the bigger teams. numbers are good, but it sure isn't helping Salem. Ava had a couple injuries and was not very good in those games. look at Liberty last year, couple injuries and they weren't very good. i or 2 injuries in Grove would have made our season take a big swing. [/quote] Thayer has thrived because of Billy Webber. Let’s not forget Thayer played in back to back State Championship games before being forced back into the SCA in football. Definitely pros and cons to playing in a conference as the smallest school. Thayer filled the schedule with Arkansas schools, smaller SCA schools and Southwest conference teams. It can be done. Cabool has not been competitive in quite some time so I can understand them wanting to mix things up. |
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luko
Active Member
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Post by luko on Nov 19, 2022 14:05:24 GMT -6
I posted the numbers, Cabools numbers are much lower than the top schools. How many times a year does Salem, Grove or Ava play schools with 800-1000 kids? Thats basically the same size difference. Cabool may have had 30 on thier roster but we all know that maybe 5 of those are football players. And again just look at the last decade of Cabool vs other SCA teams. Even the best teams they had still werent top 3 or 4 in conference.
I dont see how its a detriment to any other school. Grove would have to find one more game a cycle, its not that hard.
I think some of you are alot more spiteful then admins and coaches. Every coach understands why Cabool wants out and admin like the short travel time. If the other schools hadnt already agreed to keep playing this would have probably never made it to a board meeting.
I do agree the schedule helps some when it comes to districts if you can stay healthy and get kids to believe after theyve been turbo clocked 3 or 4 times. I think your better going in with a winning record though, if you never win you dont know how to.
As far as Thayer...did they not leave for the same reason Cabool is wanting to? Seems like it worked out for them in the long run.
Either way its not gonna happen anytime soon, the board won't even bring it back up anytime soon. I get both sides I just think it would be a lot better for Cabool if they didnt have the toughest class one schedule in the state.
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Post by bonehead on Nov 19, 2022 16:54:19 GMT -6
I posted the numbers, Cabools numbers are much lower than the top schools. How many times a year does Salem, Grove or Ava play schools with 800-1000 kids? Thats basically the same size difference. Cabool may have had 30 on thier roster but we all know that maybe 5 of those are football players. And again just look at the last decade of Cabool vs other SCA teams. Even the best teams they had still werent top 3 or 4 in conference. I dont see how its a detriment to any other school. Grove would have to find one more game a cycle, its not that hard. I think some of you are alot more spiteful then admins and coaches. Every coach understands why Cabool wants out and admin like the short travel time. If the other schools hadnt already agreed to keep playing this would have probably never made it to a board meeting. I do agree the schedule helps some when it comes to districts if you can stay healthy and get kids to believe after theyve been turbo clocked 3 or 4 times. I think your better going in with a winning record though, if you never win you dont know how to. As far as Thayer...did they not leave for the same reason Cabool is wanting to? Seems like it worked out for them in the long run. Either way its not gonna happen anytime soon, the board won't even bring it back up anytime soon. I get both sides I just think it would be a lot better for Cabool if they didnt have the toughest class one schedule in the state. Lots of nonsense right here. No teams agreed to continue playing Cabool before this even was taken to the board. Things do not work that way. No one here is spiteful. In fact we all have been very supportive of Cabool. Wanting a team with long time ties in the SCA to stay is in no way spiteful. Toughest class 1 schedule in the state? Stop. Ridiculous. And on top of all this if Cabool wants out of the SCA then why in the world would they want to keep playing the SCA schools? Makes no sense at all. |
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Post by dew on Nov 19, 2022 19:40:22 GMT -6
As far as the schools having to find one more game per cycle, that part is plenty hard enough already!
I also don't think anyone can be spiteful because this was all dropped in our laps at a moment's notice. No time to react. Had the board meeting not been posted on facebook many of us would never have known.
Yes Cabool has struggled. But you all have have won a district title more recently than we have, we ain't leaving and neither is anyone else who has struggled.
The SCA as a whole needs to get better and we gotta find ways to do it. This conference makes teams better compared to some as evidenced Cabool playing for a d-title, but when it comes to state play we don't get far. So let's all get better together and endure the things we got to endure in the process. If the COC, Big 8, etc etc can be strong from head to toe like we used to be then why can't we again?
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Post by mghs on Nov 20, 2022 10:34:03 GMT -6
Bonehead is right I doubt that Cabool had SCA teams locked down as non-conference games after they left. Why because things like that are always in flux do to all the other teams non-conference schedules as well. So the schedules across the board are not set in stone.
Coaches and administrators and Fans understand why Cabool wants out, but at the end of the day as I said Coaches and Administrators don’t want to upset the apple cart conference wise and Cabool leaving clearly upsets the cart
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Post by mghs on Nov 21, 2022 4:23:27 GMT -6
As far as the schools having to find one more game per cycle, that part is plenty hard enough already! I also don't think anyone can be spiteful because this was all dropped in our laps at a moment's notice. No time to react. Had the board meeting not been posted on facebook many of us would never have known. Yes Cabool has struggled. But you all have have won a district title more recently than we have, we ain't leaving and neither is anyone else who has struggled. The SCA as a whole needs to get better and we gotta find ways to do it. This conference makes teams better compared to some as evidenced Cabool playing for a d-title, but when it comes to state play we don't get far. So let's all get better together and endure the things we got to endure in the process. If the COC, Big 8, etc etc can be strong from head to toe like we used to be then why can't we again? A huge reason for the SCA drop off is Demographics aka talent pool.. Let's Look at the SCA and Big 8 just pulled these numbers off MSHSAA Salem-439 Mac CO -789 Aurora-407 Ava-343 Marshfield-660 Seneca-355 Grove-333 Nevada-593 MV-350 WS-302 Monett-579 Hollister-340 Houston-275 Lo-Rog-556 EN-295 MVL-256 RS-505 Lamar-287 Thayer-173 CassV-479 Catholic-283 Cabool-154 Now numbers also doesn't tell the whole side of things because while the B8 tends to bigger as a whole Seneca- MtV -Hollister- Don't dwarf the larger SCA schools they compete against in fact it would be close to a statistical push size wise. So when you factor out that those Schools are a push Student Body wise what are you left with.... Clearly Seneca has a Great tradition and History AKA football Culture. Lamar under Coach Bailey and has kept that rolling so their new tradition is on Par with anybody. But I'd say in the Case of Seneca and Lamar clearly being in the Joplin metro area as a decidedly effected their talent pool as much as anywhere. Same can be Said with Hollister and RS being in the Branson Metro area those factors can't be discounted or dismissed. Those Area's have a denser talent rich pool to draw from. I think that MtV. is getting some of that being 30 min away from Springfield but I doubt Aurora as much. EN clearly is in a desert wasteland. Catholic who knows what goes on behind the private School doors. And Cassville of late has sort of leveled off and of course if you look at them they are isolated as much as any school in the B8 not named EN so it makes sense. Of course you can't blame everything on Talent Pool and Location just like you can't discount those factors either it's not just one thing. Clearly the B8 as a whole has a Deeper and Richer Football Culture since the late 60's moving forward to the present. Those communities have bought in at a deeper level and clearly it appears that in the Offseason they get a bit more out of their kids, across the board and then if you have only 2 more difference makers on the Roster that can make for a huge disparity in the final outcome. Clearly the SCA has to up their game year around if we want to compete with the B8 schools in our Class that is a must.... and the is that is the one factor that can be controlled by SCA schools. We can't really do anything to make or location more attractive to live in. The Joplin Metro area, Branson Lakes and being close to Springfield just is going to draw more people to those area's. So acknowledging that fact is fine but whining and moaning about it is a serious waste of time. We have to just grind it out and think outside the box to compete better. I would say that with FG/Strafford being Bedroom communities of Springfield they are also poised to get a influx of talent like Nixa,Republic, Ozark did and Lo-Rog is now. They already have been if you look at some of the Athletes on the Rosters....... those schools will just get more attractive as time goes on. This isn't going to get easier...... |
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